Jessamyn Duke Is Getting Ready to Ask, “Who’s First?”
Prior to WWE’s Hell in a Cell pay-per-view, RondaRousey.com interviewed MMA Four Horsewomen-turned-NXT talents, Jessamyn Duke and Marina Shafir.
Duke spoke with us about the Performance Center, wrestling inspirations, and who really has
What finally got you to make the jump to professional wrestling, other than the fact that seemingly every person you know is doing it now?
I mean, actually that was a big reason for it—that so many people that I was supported by were doing it. But it wasn’t just that they were doing it, it was that they were having fun doing it. And by they, really, I mean Shayna. Because Shayna was the one that jumped into the deep end of the pool first. And it’s not just that she was doing it, but she was having fun, and I hadn’t seen her that happy. And just with the training and the life and all of it. It was just hard not to be, I don’t know … Not inspired, but it was like, “Man, I want some of this.” You know?
Yeah.
And then Ronda, I think she felt that too and wanted to get some training. She wanted to train, she talked to the WWE and the Performance Center and set up some training time, and asked if I could come with her, like as a training partner. Like, “Oh, can I bring my friend as a training partner?” Just so there’s someone that she knows also there to do it together—which, it’s always more fun if you do it together. And when we actually got in and did some of the training sessions, it was like both of us … I remember us just looking at each other as like, “Are you having the most fun ever?” “Yeah. Yeah, I am.” And after that, I’m like, “Man, why am I not? Why am I not doing this? Why am I not going after this with everything in me? Why? Give me one good reason why.” And I couldn’t think of one. So that’s what I did.
Was that the exact moment where you said to yourself, “Yeah, I have to do this?”
I think, yeah. I think once I walked through the doors of the PC and got to experience the level of coaching, the level of training that they do there … Even the facility is unbelievable. And they treated us like the high-level athletes that we are. It felt really good to be treated and valued as an athlete. I think that’s when I knew that it was a reality, that this is something that I could actually do. Like, it’s one thing to imagine what it would be like to train at the Performance Center and be a part of the WWE, but it’s another thing to be in the doors, with the coaches, doing the training, and be like, “Oh, no. This is reality. This is a thing.” And it’s a lot easier to, I think, manifest things when you actually experience them.
So once I had experienced it, I was like, “Yeah. I’m gonna pursue this with everything I’ve got.”
How do you think the training is going so far in your development as a wrestler?
Oh my God. It’s incredible. Like I was saying earlier, it’s the most fun I’ve had in training in years. It really does remind me of my first two years in training MMA, where I was completely obsessed. I’d wake up in the morning thinking about it, and I’d go to bed at night thinking about it, and all I’m looking forward to is when the next match is, when the next thing is. That’s all I wanna do. And it’s hard—in my opinion—it’s hard not to get better with the coaches and stuff that are there.
The coach[es], the facility … I mean, they’re the best in the world. And it’s not even just the coaches, it’s the other wrestlers as well. You’re surrounded by some of the best wrestlers in the world, some of the best coaches in the world, you have one of the best facilities on the planet to train in. If you want it, it’s really … It’s not that hard to just see yourself growing, and I do. I grow every day, and I get challenged every day. It’s such an interesting environment and method of training, that every time I start to think, “Oh, I’m getting it,” they throw a curveball at me, and I’m like, “Wow, that’s outside my comfort zone, but I like it!”
It’s been fascinating to see the evolution of developmental, from basically hiring people who had no fight or wrestling training whatsoever to getting the best wrestlers in the entire world. It must be such an interesting environment to be in.
Yes, and actually they say often now that NXT is not developmental anymore. It’s considered its own separate brand, because it’s like you said, some of the very, very, very best on the planet are in NXT. And it’s hard to say they need much development. So they really are just representing their own brand, but it’s just the luxury of having a Performance Center to train at is such an amazing thing. And that’s why so many of the main roster people come to the PC to train … They all come in there periodically, even just to use the gym portion and the coaches there. Not even just the wrestling and the rings. Everything in there is just, man, it’s so next level.
Be honest: Do you ever get starstruck by certain WWE Superstars, especially with people like Shawn Michaels as coaches?
No, I don’t, but I’ve never been a person to get starstruck, necessarily. It’s more like, “Man, I would love if I could just get a chance to ask him a question, or say something.” I look at it as, wow, I get these amazing, incredible opportunities almost every day. Like, Shawn Michaels just strolling down the hallway—I can have a pretty normal, cool conversation with him. And then, say we happen to be at a show, and I see something. I’m like, “Huh, I have this question,” and I look to my right and there’s Shawn Michaels. I can ask him.
I can be like, “Hey, what do you think about that?” And it’s completely appropriate. What an amazing luxury. It really is. How lucky and blessed am I that this is something that is real? So it’s not really starstruck, I’ve never really felt like I’m a person that gets that way.
But it’s been cool. We walk in some days and it’s like, hey, there’s Paul Heyman. Oh, there’s Stephanie McMahon. Weird. I say that as in, “Weird. Life’s weird.” And you’re not necessarily expecting it, so kinda you’re caught off guard. But I pretty much expect every day at the PC someone amazingly famous is gonna walk through the doors.
Besides your coaches, who would you say are your professional wrestling inspirations? What style of wrestling are you doing right now?
Ooh. That’s a tricky one.
Yeah, because Shayna and Ronda obviously come with the MMA background too, but they both have very different styles of wrestling.
Oh yeah. I don’t know. I think I definitely have the same sort of blend that Shayna has, as far as the catch wrestling aspect of her game goes. So, some of the all-time greats in catch wrestling like Billy Robinson and Karl Gotch. One of the suplexes I’ve been working on is a Billy Robinson special, which I feel like it’s my duty to carry these things on and do it justice. So I definitely have sort of the catch wrestling style. Some of the Japanese pro wrestlers that I really love and watch for inspiration … like Minoru Suzuki is amazing. And he’s one of Shayna’s favorites, so I’ve got to see a lot of his stuff. But it is like, the way he moves, the way he wrestles, it has a very believable aura to it. I believe with everything in me that Minoru Suzuki would just destroy any wrestler that you put in the ring with him. I believe it, like he absolutely would. He’s like a demigod of pro wrestling. The dude is crazy. I want that aura, you know? I see that, and I’m like, “Man, how do I get that? How do I do this?” You know?
I believe the way you do that is just find some version of NXT Young Lions and just start beating them up. That’s the way.
Hilariously, that’s kind of what I’m trying to do. I’m channeling that. When I walk in and they tell me to—kind of, “tell us about your stuff,” I’m like that’s what I want to do. I am here to fight, I’m not afraid of any woman, I’ve been biting off more than I can chew my entire life and jumping into pools that I have no business jumping into, but unfortunately for everyone here, I’m here now. So, who wants to be first? You know? Maybe I can’t beat everyone, but who wants to be first?
Instead of “Who’s next?” it’s “Who’s first?”
Yes, and it was quite a long time until somebody actually stepped up. But it’s been great. I didn’t watch wrestling as a super dedicated thing until probably five or six years ago.
When I was younger, I remember watching it because my brother watched it, but that was about it. I wasn’t super into it, but because of Shayna and being on The Ultimate Fighter and hearing her talk about it non-stop, I eventually kinda got sucked into it.
And as far as modern pro wrestlers that really inspire me, Daniel Bryan’s gotta be right up there in my top three. Maybe even number one
It’s always great when you just have that moment where it clicks for you. Especially with professional wrestling, because people always have a certain response. “It makes no sense. What’s the point of this?” But then, when they have that moment and they realize why it’s special, it’s so good.
Mm-hmm. … That was the moment for me. No doubt, and it was amazing.
Ronda has Joan Jett’s “Bad Reputation” as her entrance theme. If you could have any “classic” song—something that’s at least 10 years or older—as yours what would it be? No offense to CFO$.
Oh, geez. Man … A classic song? I don’t know. I don’t know, I don’t know.
Well, honestly the thing that first comes to my head and I’m not even sure why, but I’m gonna just go with my gut, is “Sympathy for the Devil” by The Rolling Stones. Because for some reason, when I started like, “Hmm…” and that one popped in and I’m like, “That’s probably it then. I’ll just go with that one.”
The Hell in a Cell pay-per-view is coming up this weekend. If you could wrestle in a Hell in a Cell match, which female Superstar would you wanna take on? It could be anyone in NXT right now or anyone on the main roster.
Ooh … Well, I mean obviously NXT is my stomping grounds right now, so I’m immediately thinking of the matches there, but … If I could have one that was not for a title and not anything major, but just this is gonna be an amazing match, it would probably be against Dakota Kai. … Yeah, I would love a chance to wrestle her and on pay-per-view like that.
You suplexing the hell out of her and her just kicking your face off?
Yeah!
That would be great.
Yeah, you can see it now can’t you?
Absolutely. And obviously, Intergender wrestling is not a big thing in WWE, but if you could face a male Superstar in the Cell, who would you choose?
Hmm … Who would I wanna beat up? Let me think … That’s a hard one, actually. It’s funny, ’cause you’re like, “Oh I never think of that,” but now I’m like, “I think definitely there’s gotta be somebody.” … Maybe Ricochet, and we can have the battle for Kentucky—’cause we’re both from Kentucky.
“The Battle For Kentucky.”
Yeah.
Though everyone will probably still wonder, “Why is this happening?”
Yeah and we’ll be like, “We’re both from Kentucky, and we’re deciding who’s really from Kentucky, okay?” And then he can be flying through the air, and I’ll just try to kick him [in mid-air].
For wrestling fans who aren’t too familiar with your MMA background, what do you want them to know about you?
Definitely the highlights of my career were that I debuted with Invicta FC, which was the first and to my knowledge the only all-women’s pro MMA promotion. And they came up and it was just this really big thing. Invicta was really special, and they found all the best female fighters in the world—you got to watch them all fight in one place. And that hadn’t really been done up until that point. ‘Cause people forget that it wasn’t that long ago that women in MMA wasn’t really a thing.
It was more like a sideshow, like the freak show at the circus or something. It was like, “Oh the women’s fight. That’s like the sideshow.” And it was this random weird attraction, and there was no weight classes usually. It was whatever two girls they could find, or you’d find one girl who’s a stone cold killer versus some girl they pulled out of the audience. So it was not really much of a competition, but Invicta changed all that. It gave women a platform, a bigger platform to fight on, and that’s who I debuted with as a pro.
As an amateur I was making a lot of noise, seeing girls that took it seriously and were traveling—I was paying out-of-pocket to fly myself everywhere I could to fight and get my name out there. So that was something I was always really proud of, and then when The Ultimate Fighter announced that they were having the first ever season with women, I went and tried out for it and I made it on the show. Not only did I make it on the show, but I also got “Fight of the Season” [against Raquel Pennington] which is probably still to this day my favorite fight and one that I’m really proud of and I always like to show people. And not to ruin it or anything, but even though I lost the fight, it is one of the best fights ever. And I’m confident saying that for most people, probably one of the best fights you’ll ever see. I’m not really one to brag, but it’s a great fight. And that was a really big deal.
And then I fought for the UFC for two-and-a-half years. When I was fighting with the UFC, I fought girls in the top 10, girls that were undefeated. And like I said, I’ve been always in my entire career biting off way more than I can chew. I did not have nearly enough fights to be fighting in the UFC, yet I was there and not afraid to stare down a girl who’s 9-0 and undefeated and knocked out eight of them. I’m like, “That’s fine. That’s cool, let’s go.” I knew all along I really needed more experience. I needed more years training in a high-level gym, I needed more than I had but I wasn’t afraid to try to do it.
But I really feel like I got to compete in all the top promotions available to women against some of the very best in the world. And my time on Ultimate Fighter was really special. Not only, like I said, did I have the best fight of my life, but that’s also where we all became friends. Me, Shayna, Ronda, and Marina. We all became friends because of The Ultimate Fighter. And if we hadn’t had to go through that hellacious experience, we wouldn’t have really bonded the way that we did. So I’m actually really thankful for that.
One last question: How much do you want to see a Four Horsewomen versus Four Horsewomen match? And do you think it could main event a WWE pay-per-view?
Yes, I do. I think … Personally, this is something that has literally been years in the making. It’s been since the very beginning and it is well-documented that we were the first group to call ourselves the Four Horsewomen. Nobody can dispute that. We were the first. We were brought into WWE, we did the Ice Bucket Challenge with Stephanie McMahon in 2014—worded as the “Four Horsewomen”—to do that with her.
She even on the mic referred to us as “Ronda Rousey and the Four Horsewomen.” Everybody knows, there’s no dispute. We were the first, they got the idea from us. And then everybody wanted to start saying that they’re the Four Horsewomen and they might be the first Four Horsewomen of WWE, but they are not the original.
But doesn’t Charlotte kind of have a claim to it? Because her father was a Four Horseman?
Really? That’s the weird thing, where we had a conversation with Ric Flair and Arn Anderson—and they gave us the blessing to call ourselves the Four Horsewomen. So if you’re really curious, I’m actually certain that Ric Flair himself would attest to this fact. So, Charlotte can say she has a claim all she wants, but they had something different in mind. So that’s what I say to that. As far as that goes, we get the blessing from two of the originals and … if we were only gonna have two that said that, those are the two that you would want to say it. And we got it from them, in person.
And what makes us unique—this is the other thing—it’s not even just that we came up with the name … Actually, we didn’t even come up with the idea: It was a fan-given name. The fan recreated this picture of the original four of us because they saw what good friends we were. And they were like, “Oh my God. You guys are like the Four Horsemen.” And we recreated this picture, and it just caught on.
But the thing that makes us special, is that we are real-life, legit friends. And not just like any every day, run of the mill friends. We are once in a lifetime friends that, any one of us would take a bullet for the other. And it doesn’t matter—not time, distance, location. Whatever we’re doing, we stay friends. It doesn’t change. As soon as we see each other again, it’s like we never missed a beat. And it’s been that way since the beginning. And the other girls can’t really say that.
Whoa.
They can’t really … they can’t say it. They may pretend to be friends for a while, but they’re also trying to stab each other in the back. And then they’re friends again. And then they’re ready to go to therapy.
I stand strong. We’re the original four. Anything from everyone else … We’re the Four Horsewomen.